Improvement to Treatment Note Exports

From now on, when you export a treatment note that includes checkbox questions—either to PDF or as part of a data export—the resulting output will show which answers were checked and which weren't.

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Comments

  • Avatar
    Terry Wharton

    Horrible, see support ticket.  TURN IT OFF.  It makes the PDF note printing useless.  Can keep it in the export as data no problem.... ASAP

  • Avatar
    as530

    I see the changes made and I genuinely think that both options should be offered. You are trying to create a product to match the needs of many users in many fields in many countries.

    I definitely see a use-case for either type of PDF export - either having the unchecked boxes displayed (as in the recent update), or only printing the checked boxes.

    For example, some surgeons may wish to demonstrate which intra-operative procedures in their template treatment notes were NOT performed - that may be of key medico-legal value.

    Equally, other practitioners might only want the checked boxes displayed for simplicity.

    I know you are trying to keep Cliniko simple, but could you not add a setting in in the Settings section to turn this recently-updated behaviour on or off?

  • Avatar
    David Peyton

    I agree.  I would be a great idea to include both options - bulk export and trimmed export (with only data filled in).  

    Thanks again to the Cliniko team for a superb, ever-improving service.

    Terry, I'm sure the Cliniko team would consider it edifying if you would observe the rules of general etiquette on the internet.  Capitalisation is considered shouting.  Your message comes across as intensely rude.  

  • Avatar
    Bart Lewis

    Just a quick update on this. We have discussed and or current thinking is we are going to set up options so you can choose both the behavior of the export to PDF and the export to CSV. We are also going to add a date filter to the CSV export as some clinics are starting to get very large export files. 

  • Avatar
    Terry Wharton

    I am sorry if I have offended any of the team. It was my intention to show an intense depth of feeling on this issue which renders Cliniko next to useless to me. I have been a staunch supporter of this program and the team. I have a lot of time and effort invested in this program and all this is for nought should this not be changed back to it's old behaviour. Shouting?, maybe, exasperated more like. My apologies if I have offended. Please change it as soon as possible

    Terry

  • Avatar
    Bart Lewis

    Hi again. Sorry for the spam. I made an error on my last post. We are going to have an option to choose how you export to PDF (with all checkboxes or just the ones ticked). The export to CSV will still contain all the checkboxes. Sorry for the mixup. 

  • Avatar
    John

    i'm another unhappy camper with the current state of treatment note|Export to pdf  -  

    Bart - the sooner we have the option the happier I'll be - preferably today.  

    and to keep the peace I'm not shouting - but i'd like to shout!  hope the bang doesn't cause offence :)

    John

  • Avatar
    Joel Friedlaender

    Hi All,

    Thanks for the feedback.  For those wanting this change reverted (and passionately so), could you please give me some more info as to why it doesn't work for you and why so important?

    I just want to understand the need and how it's used before we make another change.

    Thanks.

  • Avatar
    Marianne Nicol

    Sorry but another 3 votes against from this clinic.  Way too hard to differentiate between checked and unchecked boxes.  Please either make it an option or get rid of it asap.  We are having to go back to using the free format option which is much more time consuming.

  • Avatar
    John

    Joel- 

    We use "exported to PDF treatment notes" to communicate patient progress to referrers. We have lists of 20 or more conditions - 20 or 30 treatments - 20 odd categories of advice that are relevant to the patient population that we treat.  SO - in a treatment note we select - ie tick relevant options.  The Exported tmt notes have traditionally shown the label for only those list members that were selected.  

    NOW - the tmt note is cluttered with a mountain of irrelevant information - and that which is irrelevant is obscured - so lousy communication!

    Now I hope I've explained why the recent change is lousy from my point of view.  Are you in a position to explain why the change was made in the first place.  Were hordes of people using tmt notes differently to our usage that sparked the change - if so, I'm keen to learn.

    AND - while we're talking about export to PDF - there's an enduring BUG.  The "title" of the Treatment Note Template is still appearing on second and subsequent pages over the top of the body of the tmt note - will send you an example by email!

     

    John 

     

  • Avatar
    Joel Friedlaender

    Hi John,

    Thanks for the follow up.

    We will get a change made that fixes this for you, I appreciate the extra info.

    The reason for the change:

    1. People were requesting it.

    2. We felt that not selecting an option was meaningful information.  As an example, if you list 5 conditions, well not selecting them means this person didn't have any of those 5 conditions, but not necessarily they have no condition at all.  Showing the options provides context to what they were asked.

    We do try not to change behaviour unless necessary, typically our updates are adding to existing functionality.  That wasn't the case this time we didn't spend enough time considering the ramifications of this change. It will most likely be a setting that allows you to only show the selected options, but I'm not 100% what the solution will be yet.

    Also, is this just in the PDF export from the patient page that bothers you? E.g. does anyone care that the bulk data export changed also? I'd leave that as is if it isn't causing trouble for anyone, we do prefer that behaviour there.

  • Avatar
    Terry Wharton

    Joel,

    Thanks for the promise of prompt changes back to the old PDF format for printing. When you have a function that is core to "doing business" such as communicating with the referral sources, any proposed changes made by the team need to be better communicated. I for one, am happy to view the help section of Cliniko from time to time, but do not trawl the help areas for changes unless we need help. I feel that now that Cliniko is getting so many users that a representative group of clinicians may be selected for consultation as part of your process for change. No offence but geeks and tech guys, while very important to the process are not the end users and may not have a perspective of all the nuances of offering patient care on the front line. This sort of a change is an example. Seems like a good idea, requested by the vocal minority, but has a very negative effect on some of the clinical majority. I like the comment about incremental functionality, with options are the best. I use the print to PDF function 30 times per day to give patients copies of notes, shoe prescriptions, instructions etc and have premised my "less treatment notes but more options within each note " strategy.

    Thanks for your understanding and flexibility on seeing the clinicians side of the story.....

    Regards,

    terry

  • Avatar
    Joel Friedlaender

    Hi Terry,

    We'll get it changed ASAP, I'll update here when done so you know.

    This one was a mistake, but don't underestimate our geeks and tech guys because of it! I know we're not end users, but we have plenty of techniques to bridge that gap, I think Cliniko on the whole is an example that it works.  As I said, we made a judgement error here and will fix our mistake.

    Sorry for the trouble caused.

    Joel

  • Avatar
    John

    Joel -

    Had figured you didn't just change stuff to add interest to my day ;)   And I'm not surprised to hear of the usage you describe in your dot point 2 where not selecting something has "information" value.  We just "developed" a usage pattern for ?CheckBoxes Questions in tmt notes that in part reflected the way they were exported - because you just published the selected "answers" in the export to PDF, they became a convenient way to work.

    Wrt your final paragraph - you ask the question  E.g. does anyone care that the bulk data export changed also?  Are you referring to behaviour with Settings|Data Exports|Treatment Notes.  In fact - I've just checked my previous data export and am surprised to find that you weren't exporting the answers, just the questions.  I can't see whether you've fixed this or what changes you may have made to Settings|Data Exports|Treatment Notes because any attempt to do so today results in a spinning wheel that never successfully generates a .csv file!  Something needs some love! :)

    thanks John

  • Avatar
    Joel Friedlaender

    Hi John,

    We're investigating the data export issue from the settings page.

    Also confirmed, we're adding a setting that is "Hide unselected checkbox options from Export to PDF", it will have nicer wording.  Bira is working on it now, we hope to have it released in the next 12 hours or so (could obviously be longer, but we'll try).

    We'll let you know here when it's live, because you will need to "tick" the new option.  We're keeping current version as the default.

    Thanks for your feedback everyone.

    Joel

  • Avatar
    as530

    Hi Joel

    That's great news. In an era of increasing litigation, clinicians are just as often required to document negatives. "No chest pain", "No previous eye symptoms" etc etc etc - by having the option to leave unselected checkboxes show, those practitioners for whom the negatives are important won't have to type out long lists of negatives any more. So I'm glad you're keeping both options!

    I would also agree that in general, adding a new functionality as an option first - and notifying people of the option - is maybe the best way to introduce change? Then afterwards, if you find that nobody is using it X way around, you could always remove that option. Just a thought, but obviously you guys know best!

     

  • Avatar
    Bira Alberton

    I'm happy to report that it's now possible to configure the output format for checkbox answers on treatment notes PDFs and patient history reports. See this post for more details. The default format still shows all the checkboxes, so if you don't want  it please make sure to adjust the new setting under Documents & Printing.

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